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Carps
1000RPM



Joined: 07 Dec 2020
Posts: 1387

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2021 1:45 pm    Post subject:

Flatoz wrote:
The poor ol' L head may not rev to high ( three mainbearings dont help ) but I dont know an engine that has such a distictive sound that can send a chill up your spine like an uncorked cammed flathead


Well, listening to Al Teague doin about 300 klicks on Gairdner comes close second


Ask any of the people at Phillip Island on Sunday, which vehicle got the vote for best tunes from the tailpipes? A certain red F1 driven by a certain big bearded bloke was well clear of the second placed vehicle. And everybody we passed en route passed a comment about how good that little quad cammed multi valve V8 sounds with straight pipes and a pair of glasspacks.
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Flatoz
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Joined: 02 Apr 2021
Posts: 751
Location: Melbourne

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2021 3:04 pm    Post subject:

but which one will be remembered for their sound
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Carps
1000RPM



Joined: 07 Dec 2020
Posts: 1387

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2021 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Flatoz wrote:
but which one will be remembered for their sound


I remember mine for it's propensity to imitate 'Old Faithful' with great regularity. icon_cry.gif icon_cry.gif icon_cry.gif

My later Y block sounded heaps better and the little tojo even better than that. But of course the V16 Vanwall racer is the best sounding thing I EVER heard at WOT! Followed by the flat 12 Ferrari in 2nd place and the V12 Fazz in third.
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Carps
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Carps
1000RPM



Joined: 07 Dec 2020
Posts: 1387

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject:

Dave Lukkari's blown flattie is one of the vetter sounding valve in block enhgines I ever heard, only thing is to make it sound and go as good as it does did involve a pair of gennie ARDUN head which kinda invalidates the argument.
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Carps
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bucketmouth
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Joined: 26 Mar 2021
Posts: 67

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2021 8:01 pm    Post subject:

Carps wrote:
Flatoz wrote:

nothing like a plug eh Carps


Yeah, unfortunately the only engine available with no plugs is a Diesel.

Dunno what the spam comment means, since I'm not the importer or reseller of these engines. My role was simply advising Barry's sparky on how to sort out the spaghetti so the engine would run and changes gear ratios properly.


Carps I was wondering about these motors and trans but I knew there was problem with the trans shifts.What has your mate sorted out?
On the other site a while back there was a discussion about it which you also made mention however there wasn't a satisfactory outcome as far as I know. Do you know of any pratical solution to the problem?
cheers

p.s are you coming over for Big Als?
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Cool23
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Joined: 16 May 2021
Posts: 85
Location: Castlemaine, Australia

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2021 3:46 pm    Post subject:

H/Rock was good day out and Flat Oz you missed a neat little Flat powered A Roadster your Mum spotted it and made some comment that you could not have been there as you would have been around it. Wind was a bit nasty later in the day so I can understand why Dave was stuffed when he got home.
Cool23.
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Malcolmsp
Rookie


Joined: 13 May 2021
Posts: 93

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject:

Carps wrote:


Ask any of the people at Phillip Island on Sunday, which vehicle got the vote for best tunes from the tailpipes? A certain red F1 driven by a certain big bearded bloke was well clear of the second placed vehicle. And everybody we passed en route passed a comment about how good that little quad cammed multi valve V8 sounds with straight pipes and a pair of glasspacks.


After a friend recently purchased a V8 auto Sahara landcruiser I have a new found respect for the toyo motors.

For such a heavy car it gets along ok and the shifts are imperceptible.

Its not enough to talk me out of the gen3 but still far better than I expected.

cya
Mal
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Carps
1000RPM



Joined: 07 Dec 2020
Posts: 1387

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2021 8:04 pm    Post subject:

Malcolmsp wrote:
After a friend recently purchased a V8 auto Sahara landcruiser I have a new found respect for the toyo motors.


Think that's good, you should try it's alloy block with VVT-i and six speed auto baby brother used in the cars.

Quote:
For such a heavy car it gets along ok and the shifts are imperceptible.


That's why I traded my Sahara for a GXL. Cloth seats have same form but better grip off road, I really don't need Sat Nav and the console bin is more useful to me than the fridge. But best of all it' carries half a ton less weight with an equal variation in performance. Most fun is scaring Commodore SS drivers who think they can make an extra lane on the left of the big wagon at the lights and very quickly learn they shoulda just stayed in behind.

Even dumber are Commodore S drivers, who seem to think this is one V8 they can beat and simply have to try and prove it.

Quote:
Its not enough to talk me out of the gen3 but still far better than I expected.


Different power band, The Cruiser will get off the line first and the GenIII will pull in front in the mid range, but it runs out of puff just as the Tojo is starting to sing. It's actually a closer drag race (conducted in controlled environment of Calder Park) than you might think but the genIII should pip the Cruiser every time, but not by that much the Commy driver would want to be beating his cheast about. The Cruiser bent eight is smaller then a genIII by more then one litre and the cruiser weighs more than a tone heavier than the Commodore. And that takes us back to something I've commented on before.... get the gearing right and match it to a well sorted power and torque band and even a 1.8 litre 4 banger in a Corolla will thump a V8.

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Carps
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2021 8:28 pm    Post subject:

bucketmouth wrote:
Carps I was wondering about these motors and trans but I knew there was problem with the trans shifts.


Not really a problem, moreso a challenge. Most of the engines available here so far come from late eighties or early nineties Crowns or Crown Majestas and therefore have a separate computer to control the trans, cruise and traction control systems. The only way to make them work properly is to use all, that is each and every single sensor from the original car. What causes the problems is that the engines come to this country in 'half cuts' and as a result the driveline and rear axle sensors are missing. Because of the trans the ECU can't be easily changes as there's different ECUs for different transmissions and to don't interchange. The Celsior (LS400) is different in that there's only one ECU to control engine and trans and it's easier to bypass some of the systems. In the case of Barry's truck he had the loom reworked by an expert who replaced the trans module with a VDO controller box that features adjustable switches kind of like a graphic equaliser control for your stereo. Then it was just a matter of making the thing run and 'dailing in' the right shift points on the black box. There's a couple of other 'tweaks' within the system to make the engine ECU think everything is OK but again they are different for different versions of the engine.

The new six speed trans is our first to used micro solenoids instead of hydraulics to change ratios and this little gem can be tuned to shift at whatever point you want or even operated manually where it'll hold the gear right up to the rev limiter.

Quote:
What has your mate sorted out?


The only issue to be resolved is a rich situation, although consumption for the trip to Philip Island and return was only 12 l/100kms. That mainly thanx to a too high final drive ratio which has now been changed for a 4.3 ring and pinion so it'll cruise at 60km/h just on 1.500rpm in top gear where previously that speed required less rpms than the engine needs to idle.

The other issue with the early Crown engines is that the Euro IV OBD Intelitester we use here doesn't plug into it because the regs in Japan are different. However, we've figured out how to get round that so I'll be taking it to work in the next few days to plug it in and get the tuneup right. The rich mixture is simply because the signal from the O2 sensors is wrong because of the ECU bipass and also the truck radiator has it running too cool so the temp sender for the injection (which is not the same unit as for the dash because it reads combustion chamber tem and the dash shows coolant temp) is sending a too cool message thus the computer thinks it needs a richer mixture because it's still cold.

Quote:
p.s are you coming over for Big Als?


Tried my best but a few other things got in the way, not least being the arrival of a certain red white and black race car and a couple of other bits of neat stuff that will be on display this weekend at the Melnbourne Motorsport Show.

So, my 2004 Perth Hot Rod trip is now looking like the Hot Rod Show later in the year, unless I go crazy and hit the SandGroper Nat's although I'm more likely to be overseas at Easter. If it's any consolation I missed my planned trip to NZ also, but that was simply coz I decided to stay home with Mrs carps just for a change rather than leave her home alone coz thanks to an inner ear infection she couldn't fly and the boat was going to be waaaay to slow.
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Malcolmsp
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Joined: 13 May 2021
Posts: 93

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2021 10:03 pm    Post subject:

Carps wrote:
Commodore SS drivers who think they can make an extra lane on the left of the big wagon at the lights and very quickly learn they shoulda just stayed in behind.

Different power band, The Cruiser will get off the line first and the GenIII will pull in front in the mid range, but it runs out of puff just as the Tojo is starting to sing. It's actually a closer drag race (conducted in controlled environment of Calder Park) than you might think but the genIII should pip the Cruiser every time, but not by that much the Commy driver would want to be beating his cheast about.


I think you are confusing a 5.0 SS or a very poorly driven stock gen3.

My SS is good for around 13.6-13.8 with only an exhasut and retune and if you get anywhere near that in a GXL I will trade the SS in on it tomorrow!

I was still impressed by the sahara in comparison to what I expected it to be.

cya
Mal
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Carps
1000RPM



Joined: 07 Dec 2020
Posts: 1387

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2021 10:28 pm    Post subject:

Malcolmsp wrote:

I think you are confusing a 5.0 SS or a very poorly driven stock gen3.


I didn't say the Cruiser will beat it, but it sure as heck won;t be embarrased by it. Just ask the guy in the new Commie SS yoot who this morning tried to make an extra lane on my left where there wasn't one. He ended up looking at my spare tyre. Of course had there been more road for him to use, then he'd likely have beaten me, strangely not all of them who try that are as smart as this guy and those things handle like crap when they hit the loose gravel on the shoulder at WOT.

Quote:
I was still impressed by the sahara in comparison to what I expected it to be.


Yeah, they are a revelation and surprise most folks who think they must be like a truck to drive. Go hard stop on a cent and with familiarity handle and steer OK for what they are and of course it can be driven a lot more places than a normal car I drive mine pretty hard and over 20,000 kliks in five months it's still averaged just over 12litres/100kms fuel economy.

If I had to have a car, I'd still take a Commy SS over a GTS if it was my money, but there's no way I'd buy a yoot. They are the most diabolical thing I've driven in the wet since the original VN Commie which was just straight up diabolical wet or dry. The HSV-GTS 300 has been my biggest Commy dissapointment in recent times. Not near as good as I reckon it should be for the hype or the money. In fact, for not too much money, the Falcon XR8 is about as good as it gets and I reckon drives better than the Commy SS, although it's a straight up bitch to get in and out of.
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2021 10:50 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for the info carps it seems like it could be to involved at this stage to contemplate doing it to my sons roadster.
Hopefully see you over here later on.
ps Big Als was a good event with over 550 cars.
I wish I knew how to post photos so I could put some on.
37chev might be able to do so.
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Carps
1000RPM



Joined: 07 Dec 2020
Posts: 1387

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2021 8:17 pm    Post subject:

Swapping the engine into Barry's already built truck was probably not the smartest idea. Much easier to be doing the deal from scratch and building the ancilaries on rather than trying to make it work with stuff that's already installed.

However, it's working good. The more it's driven the more it remembers and adjusts it's systems to correct the rich situation. According to the sniffer & it appears that the more the truck is driven the more the system figures it's getting the right signals. Nothing has been touched or adjusted since that first trip, but the rich mixture has now been leaned off and is close to the perfect air/fuel ratio at idle and all the way to WOT.

Hooked up the A/C compressor tonight and the ECU instantly recognised it and adjusted the idle instantly it cut in. It idles at 700rpm and there's not even a flicker at the tach needle as the compressor cuts in.

And to think "real hot rodders" would rather mess with carb adjustments and jets for months just to get something close to a decent idle and driveability, without being worried about too lean a mixture at WOT.
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