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my 34 chev
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hotrodmatt
Just Idling



Joined: 29 Sep 2020
Posts: 105
Location: Liverpool, Sydney

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:39 am    Post subject:

Oops.... what did I start?

Quote:
"How Much"

Not as much as you'd think.

The blowers are about 300 a pop. They pulleys don't cost a fortune to MAKE. The case is a standard VW job machined for the 94mm bore. The barrels and pistons less than a grand. The scat rods cost a bit. The plenum and minifolds were made for the cost of some welding wire and sheet steel. The burst plates machined up for little.

The costs are the owners but I wouldn't mind guessing there's a lot less than 5 grand!

Don't know the HP yet as there's still sorting to do. But on it's first preliminary start up we got 239 at the wheels with the torque spinning them out of the rollers. The same engine with the single blower was good for 250HP and 10.3 seconds @ 130 mph.
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Malcolmsp
Rookie


Joined: 13 May 2021
Posts: 88

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject:

bcal wrote:

Ok but I was talking about stockers so let's up the anti a little. A stock WRX at 122ci produces a reliable and streetable 230hp. That's nearly 2hp per ci.

Now I know I'll be corrected but I don't reckon you could get a 350ci V8 to produce a reliable and streetable 700 horses. Not without massive investment at least.

That's why I say you can't compare the two without taking into account their base hp per cubes and what improvements you can make to this for your buck.


Brett,

Check out the specs for NA Imprezza, 122 hp or 1 hp per cube.

Depending on which model year and spec Gen3 you pic you get between 0.85 and 1.15 hp per cube.

Both of these are NA, if you want to compare forced induction with forced induction a local tuner here has a whipple on his new monaro making around 600 flywheel hp on 9 psi with torque everywhere. (yes massive investment but a very streetable package) The motor has not had cam or head work.

Perhaps Spoolin can confirm how the relative fuel consumption per hp produced compares between a turbo rotary and a big V8 ?

cheers
Mal
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spoolin_20B
Rookie


Joined: 21 Mar 2021
Posts: 24

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:08 pm    Post subject:

that motor looks sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
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Spoolin its just the beginning

If you can't see the point in having 450HP to get from A to B, it's obvious you're not giving the problem your full attention
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spoolin_20B
Rookie


Joined: 21 Mar 2021
Posts: 24

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:40 pm    Post subject:

well the 350 is going this week and i should have the 20b next weekend and hopefully i should have the turbo as well, will put some more pix up when i get them

shane
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Spoolin its just the beginning

If you can't see the point in having 450HP to get from A to B, it's obvious you're not giving the problem your full attention
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Brootal
900RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 940
Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:12 am    Post subject:

I'm sure all of those comparisons are very valid and interesting Malcolm, but if we all drove GenIII powered cars, life sure would be boring.

It will be interesting to see if the car actually goes better with two blowers. As well all know, sometimes, Less is More.
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It's OK, I'm not really from Sydney, I just moved here.

Ramblers, Hot Rods, Surfing and Model Cars
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Malcolmsp
Rookie


Joined: 13 May 2021
Posts: 88

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject:

My most humble apologies Brootal I just went with the numbers I knew.

Please replace the word gen3 with "typical efi v8" and the naturally aspirated Imprezza with "typical NA 2litre 4".

cheers
Mal
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Brootal
900RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 940
Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:42 pm    Post subject:

Malcolmsp wrote:
My most humble apologies Brootal I just went with the numbers I knew.

Please replace the word gen3 with "typical efi v8" and the naturally aspirated Imprezza with "typical NA 2litre 4".

cheers
Mal


Don't worry mate, not trying to stir you anything, in fact, I agree 100% with you.

No matter what people try and do with whichever engine, there's NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!

But really, you've got to dig anyone who has the guts to put TWO blowers on any engine.
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Ramblers, Hot Rods, Surfing and Model Cars
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bcal
400RPM



Joined: 04 Feb 2021
Posts: 447
Location: The Shire, Sydney

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:47 pm    Post subject:

1hp/ci for a NA 4 banger is pretty piss weak by todayís standards. Especially when you consider that Alfas have been putting out more than that for over 50 years. The current 2L twin spark is rated at 165hp. In 1970 they produced a 160ci V8 that produced 230hp, which was not a bad effort for back then. (I know. Iím started to sound like I love the bloody things )

All things being equal you should be able to double the output by doubling the cubes but I suspect that you run into increasing losses thru things like friction, rotational mass, heat and the need for larger accessories.

Sunday being a bit of a rainy day here in Sydney I did a bit of searching on the web and found this table comparing the output of different types of IC engines. http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_cc2hp.htm
You could draw any number of conclusions from this data

I also dug up this site whose tech section may be of interest to you guys that are into drag racing. http://www.slowgt.com/Calc.htm

I wonder what comparisons can be drawn between increasing a cars hp and reducing its weight? Iíd reckon reducing weight is more effective but Iíll do some searching on the web to confirm this.
Either way itís a good excuse for me to go on a diet
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Bye for now..........
Brett.
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Franky
Just Idling



Joined: 18 Jun 2021
Posts: 145
Location: Darwin

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:58 pm    Post subject:

Honda S2000 176Kw NA 2ltr, pretty impressive.

One question for Mat, why spend that sort of $$ on VW motor when $600 of efi turbo subaru (ea82) will do a 12sec pass in a vw.......(yes I had the VW illness before RODS). I can appreciate both sides, juz maybe a twin turbo V8 home brew thingy will see one of my rods evetually down the track.

Those in Newcastle... keep an eye out for NAG69 a mint mach I mustang, this is the twin turbo'd water inj. winza I was tellin Ripper about..... it has been sorted and very impressive. A riced stang as the Doof Doof boys would say.

Spoolin........ Luv ya work
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Franky.....
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hotrodmatt
Just Idling



Joined: 29 Sep 2020
Posts: 105
Location: Liverpool, Sydney

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:37 am    Post subject:

Quote:
One question for Mat, why spend that sort of $$ on VW motor when $600 of efi turbo subaru (ea82) will do a 12sec pass in a vw.......(yes I had the VW illness before RODS).


Because it's the drag car of a VW shop. It's a low budget team being competitive with big budget cars using autocraft/scat/pauter engines. Showing that the same strength is available from a VW case.
We are expecting to get into the 9s this weekend.

I have both illnesses.... But limited budget (well no money) means I have to complete my chopped fenderless bug before I rob a bank and start on my dream of a 35 Ford.
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BTR
Newbie



Joined: 17 Apr 2021
Posts: 4
Location: adelaide

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:56 am    Post subject:

hi shane

long time no hear ,looking good mate, keep up the good work and dare to be different, i was and got supported BUT at the same time got flamed as well so keep your head up..

dont compare a 13b to a 20b the sound is nowhere near the buzzing sound
you get from the 13b they actually are a very nice deep sound almost like a mildly worked 6cyl on idle and a GTR skyline whilst reving.

cheers
good to see most of you guys support what shane is doing.. hold onto your hats if you put a v8 into a mazda..
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bzn13b
Newbie



Joined: 17 Apr 2021
Posts: 1

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:50 am    Post subject:

That thing will be awesome, some of you guys really underestimate your rotaries, a 13b could put out a easy 450rwhp which would be reliable, of course this would be using forced induction but as they came out of the factory with forced induction, you dont need to do much to squeeze the power out of them.
A 20b could do plenty more reliably, dont know how streetable it would be not being able to put the power down to the wheels on the street icon_razz.gif .
I mean out of a 13b, 450rwhp, woulbe around 500-550 flywheel hp depending on how much power is lost through the drive train, and the weight of the engine and turbo wouldnt be more than 150kg so the power to weight ratio is damn good.
Goodluck spoolin , that 20b will sure turn some heads and with 700hp dont know how long that chassis is gona last
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spoolin_20B
Rookie


Joined: 21 Mar 2021
Posts: 24

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:57 pm    Post subject:

hey leroy hows it going cheers for the support dude we must catch up some time

bzn13b your exactly right they make good power eaisly and witht power to waight they will fly

cheers
shane
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Spoolin its just the beginning

If you can't see the point in having 450HP to get from A to B, it's obvious you're not giving the problem your full attention
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ripper
200rpm



Joined: 12 Jun 2021
Posts: 269
Location: West Aust.

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:18 am    Post subject:

well i hear people mention hot rod tradition & traditional hot rod motors & yeah there is validity in those terms, but for the most part (in my mere mortal mind) the best hot rod tradition is making your car your way & hopefully making it go a little better than before.

an old nailhead/flathead has every bit the place under the sun as a rotary or a SBC.

i like SBC cos, well no real technical reason, just like 'em.
if you're gunna go the whole hog with a rotary in a rod then nope it's probably not a traditional rod motor in one sense, but being diffrent, unique with a load of thought planning & ingenuity with a good dash of grunt well in another sense it's groud breaking & be a great hot rod motor.

Mind you please remember a rotary powered 34 is NOT a hot rod, until the Rod Rider(tm) has sat in it!!! Photo proof required BTW!

Spool on I reckon & if you blow a few V8 doors off in the process all power to you. If your doors get blown off, well thats racing/rodding...are you having fun yet is the question.

Like I reckon, the car you use to get there should become the reason for going

Keen to see more. I'm flagging the twin turbo-ed SBC for now, but still harbouring the idea...maybe you can inspire me to go for it for real instead of on paper.

Varoom!
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spoolin_20B
Rookie


Joined: 21 Mar 2021
Posts: 24

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:50 pm    Post subject:

ripper wrote:
well i hear people mention hot rod tradition & traditional hot rod motors & yeah there is validity in those terms, but for the most part (in my mere mortal mind) the best hot rod tradition is making your car your way & hopefully making it go a little better than before.


Like I reckon, the car you use to get there should become the reason for going



your right on there i agree with you 100% on that one
_________________
Spoolin its just the beginning

If you can't see the point in having 450HP to get from A to B, it's obvious you're not giving the problem your full attention
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