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Tail Shaft Balancing - Requesting Advice
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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject:

maybe a lose flywheel
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JIMBOB
Cruisin



Joined: 11 May 2021
Posts: 322
Location: Canberra

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:13 pm    Post subject: Tail Shaft balancing

Bcal wrote[quote] remember a friend of mine who had an XA that vibrated at a cetain speed. He tried everything to fix it and was eventually put onto an idea that worked by a Ford mechanic. It involved a counter weight on the end of a rod that was attached to the gearbox crossmember. The idea was the vibs travelled down the rod and were dissapated by the weight.
Crazy Ha! But it worked.

Not so crazy. I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade and this is how vibrations are controlled in the cabin of a helicopter. Directly under the pilot and copilot seats are lengths of alloy about 4mm thick with lumps of lead bolted through the ends. The lumps can be slid up or down the length of the lead according to the amount of "high frequency" vibration.

Never heard of the theory being used on vehicles but.

Cheers and beers

Jimbob
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Big G
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Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 97
Location: Sunbury

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject:

Some model fairlanes & marques had vibration dampers fittedat the back of the gearbox.

I have modified about 5 tailshafts over the years by going to the local engineering shop and have the shaft cut on a lathe, the new yoke is also cut off the old shaft the same way. They always fit perfectly and are easy to weld. Never had any of them balanced.
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PeterR
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:28 am    Post subject: VIBRATIONS

[quote=
Never heard of the theory being used on vehicles but.

Jimbob[/quote]

Have a look at the nose of the crankshaft of every modern auto engine.
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JIMBOB
Cruisin



Joined: 11 May 2021
Posts: 322
Location: Canberra

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:21 pm    Post subject: Tail Shaft Balancing

Peter R wrote

Quote:
Have a look at the nose of the crankshaft of every modern auto engine.


Yes we are all familiar with harmonic balancers. These disipate rotary vibrations. The bars which bcal and myself refer to are not attatched to a rotating item, there fore will only disipate vertical or lateral vibrations. I used to chase all these pesky little suckers for a living. Its amazing how much you can deduce about the state of various components by measuring the frequency and size (ips) of vibrations in various places on an aicraft/helicopter. Even a small bearing nearing failure can be found.

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Jimbob
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PeterR
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Tail Shaft Balancing

Quote:
The bars which bcal and myself refer to are not attatched to a rotating item, there fore will only disipate vertical or lateral vibrations.


Whether linear or rotary, the action of a resonant dynamic absorber is exactly the same even down to the kinematic analysis.
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Mr Cool
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Joined: 27 Sep 2020
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Location: Bacchus Marsh, Vic

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:23 pm    Post subject:

Could also be a flat-spot on a tyre if youve locked the brakes at some stage. It may not show up on a wheel balance either.
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bcal
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Joined: 04 Feb 2021
Posts: 711
Location: The Shire, Sydney

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Whether linear or rotary, the action of a resonant dynamic absorber is exactly the same even down to the kinematic analysis.

Fit a harmonic balancer to the tailshaft
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Pep
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Joined: 14 Jun 2021
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Location: Georges Hall, NSW

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:18 pm    Post subject:

I have sen torque converters do something similar....
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Guest






Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:35 pm    Post subject:

Choco: you mentioned maybe harmonic balancer? Surely if it was, a simple slip into neutral when the vibration is present would disprove that?
Most modern cars have a vibration damper somewhere. My TR Magna had a large cylinder of steel mounted on rubber sitting under the radiator.
As someone said: since the car is lowered, maybe gearbox angle and pinion angle are no longer in phase? If you suspect the tailshaft is out of balance, you could try the old hose clamp trick. Put a hose clamp around the shaft and go for a ride. Is it worse? Rotate the clip... You get the idea.
I had a vibrationon a Hilman Hunter at one stage. Turned out to be the wheel balancing adapter: it was OK with most cars as they use the large hole in the centre of the wheel to mount it on the balancer. With the Hunter ("Rohstyle" wheels) they used the 4-stud adapter, which was off-centre.
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choco
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Joined: 11 Jun 2021
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Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:59 am    Post subject:

Well, the weekend proved to be interesting. A few months ago, Danny ordered a rack and pinion conversion kit from Hemi Performance (among many other things, like recon K-Member, brake booster, V8 torsion bars, tubular A-Arms, etc). We had the kit installed with the 265 still in it, then we swapped the 318 in, as the hemi was tired and it was provong far more cost effective slipping a 318 in rather than a complete revbuild of the hemi, but I digress.
Hemi Perfromance insisted that the rack and pinion also suits the V8, no problem. We slotted the 318 in, and the sump hit the rack. Aftre a few days trying to get in contact, HP said we must have a truck sump. Not knowing exactly where the engine came from, we took them at their word and ordered a sump kit.
No change, sump hits the rack.
HP kept telling us that the chassis must be twisted, or the cradle was incorrectly installed. The kits were prepared in a jig and could not be faulted. So we asked about their advertised "V8 conversion" engine mounts. Oh, yeah, we have these thicker engine mounts, try them. Well, after installing the engine mounts, the sump finally cleared the rack by a good 5mm. Pretty tight, but OK.
Then he got the exhaust made. He had some block huggers, but the steering rack interfered, so some Pacemaker headers were ordered. More $$$$. Now the car goes great, but this vibration was driving us mad! Turns out that the engine has "settled" and is just touching the steering rack again! To make matters worse, the steering knuckle bolt touches the extractors when you turn the wheel! Made up two 6mm plates to go between the engine mount and rubber biscuit. Clearance is now OK. Steering knuckly clears the exhaust OK. Vibration gone. Will not deal with HP again, as they just don't have any idea about the products they sell.
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TJ'S Dad
200rpm



Joined: 28 May 2021
Posts: 255
Location: AMPHITHEATRE. VIC

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:26 pm    Post subject:

Another case of buyer beware ....... really gets to me when we contact so called experts and they have no idea what they are talking about.

Recently i had a case where i needed a wheel stud for a C1500 Inter so i ordered one from same people i had got one off 6mths earlier.It arrived ..fitted it ..a week later the bill ..price had gone from $19.95 for stud and $7.00 for nut to $58.00 for stud and $29.00 for nut .

As we all would do i jumped up n down ... then was told they had never stocked them and got that one in just for me ..luckily the missus keeps good records and came up with original invoice.

Their answer "It musta been the bloke we sacked"

So round the corner to another dealer .. his price $20.00 stud $5.00 nut

Not only do these dickheads lose me as a customer but also the many i speak to about them !!
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bcal
700RPM



Joined: 04 Feb 2021
Posts: 711
Location: The Shire, Sydney

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:06 pm    Post subject:

Choco,
Glad you guys sorted your vibration problem out.
There's enuff advice here now to cure anyones vibration woes.

So much for bolt on stuff hey.
I've been caught like that too and got the run around.
"You must have that one in ten thousand car that it doesn't fit"
or
"you must be doing something wrong coz nobody else has had this problem"
That's why I like to make my own stuff.
I figure I can f**k things up just as good as anyone else but at a fraction of the cost.
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Brett.
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Fingers
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Joined: 04 Sep 2020
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Location: WAGGA WAGGA NSW AUSTRALIA

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:33 pm    Post subject: Hemi Performance

I spend heaps of time on the Moparmarket forum (too much time)
There has been lots of discusion on the forum about Hemi Performance and their really bad rep for this type of customer service.
Things like this are mentioned quite regularly (but sometimes deleted by the moderators), so it is not an isolated case.
BUYER BEWARE.
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choco
700RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 795
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Hemi Performance

Fingers wrote:
I spend heaps of time on the Moparmarket forum (too much time)
There has been lots of discusion on the forum about Hemi Performance and their really bad rep for this type of customer service.
Things like this are mentioned quite regularly (but sometimes deleted by the moderators), so it is not an isolated case.
BUYER BEWARE.


Yeah, I started a thread on the Charger a while ago, explaining blow by blow our problems. Another thing that happened was that while we were fitting the fatter engine mounts, we noticed a mounting bolt that holds the cradle for the steering rack in between the chassis rails had snapped. Upon close inspection, we could see that all four mounting bolts were ungraded mild steel bolts. After only about 50kms of wear, the bolt snapped! Of course, we replaced them with grade 8 bolts, but when Danny asked HP about this, they just dismissed it as not important. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but any component, especially steering and brakes, MUST be secured with AT LEAST grade 8 fasteners. To sell a product like that and only supply bolts that are usually used to hold two bits of wood together on the side gate of your house is criminal! No automotive business would sell anything less, as the litigation would be too hard to avoid. That aspect alone has now caused HP to loose many more customers, besides just us.
_________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
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