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Fair Go ASRF

 
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Mr X
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2020 6:18 pm    Post subject: Fair Go ASRF

I support the ASRF and pay my membership when it's due.
I am of the view that united we stand and divided we fall and without a governing body.As an individulal I would never be reconised, who give a stuff about one lone voice, But I also feel that all of us individual member (lone wolfs) don't get a fair go from the ASRF, let me ask why are clubs privy to certain information and us individual members are left out, I'ts my choice not to be member of a club I have plenty of friends whom I socialise with at runs I don't need the club polotics and BS that's associated with being a club member..I'ts my choice.....So why doesn't the ASRF just publish all the information it has in their Magizine so we can all share it.. If something needs to voted on why can't I have my say.. I pay my dues, and probebly more because I don't get the "club" dicsount.
I have sent an email to the ASRF outlining this complaint...guess what No reply.
But yes i'll still pay my fees not that i get any value for money but as I said we need to have voice and there is something to be said about safety in numbers..especially dealing with the beurocrats
ASRF bashing? a professional whinger? as choco would say.. I don't think so, just an ASRF member that has a number that wants a fair go!!
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choco
500RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 532
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject:

You make some valid points, and you must be aware that these same issues have been covered again and again. As I keep saying, the leadership of the ASRF comes from rank and file rodders like us, so why is the ASRF structured the way it is? Well, it is club based because it's the most efficient and fair way of distributing information and collecting information. It is also the fairest way to distribute power (ie, voting). Several years ago, a "lone wolf" pushed the issue of one member, one vote. He pushed and pushed until the NCC decided to "give it a fair go" and launched a referendum. I don't have the figures, but let's just say the return was dismal at best. And I think it was voted down anyway. The referendum served a purpose, however, and was a bit of a "wake up" call. Out of it came a "new" state, the ACT. In fact, the NT was on the verge of doing the same thing. The point is, another player entered the ring, expanding the representation.
Now, the Lone Wolves of the rodding community have always had the opportunty to have their say. Any member (and even non-members) are welcome at DC meetings to offer their point of view. Sure, you don't have a "vote" as such because voting is by proportional representation, the same way that federal governemnt representatives are elected. I(f your argument is strong enough, representative clubs will vote with you.
Next, examine the reason you are a "Lone Wolf". You say that you don't like the politics and BS that the clubs bring. Well, you must be living in a vacuum to think that politics should be left out of rodding. It's a PART of rodding, a part of every day life. The advantage of being in a club is that certain members are happy to handle the politics for you.
As to your complaint, via Email, that wasn't handled, you must remember that the secretary gets the correspondence and handles it accordingly. She has no power over these things and passes the corres[pondence on to the appropriate State Director or Steward, to handle. If that process takes too long, then steps should be taklen to inform you of the progress of your complaint. Perhaps the person it was passed on to is a bit slack, disinterested or maybe oblivious to the nature of the complaint. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, you may be forced to follow up your complaint personally. Ring the secretary and find out what happened with your original email. Go along to a DC meeting and ask the State Director. Because you are on your own (a Lone Wolf) you must be more pro-active than a club member needs to be (remember what I said about someone else handling the politics?).
The ASRF was formed back in 1972. It's structure was worked out and established based on the remnants of the AHRF. It took a few years to iron out, but that's the structure we have right now. It's not ideal for individuals, it is set up for clubs, and this won't change in the forseeable future.
Regardless, there are still many benefits which can be drived from ASRF membership. As a Lone Wolf, you enjoy the unfettered freedom you have chosen, but must work a little bit harder to have your voice heard in a sea of clubs.
As a wise man once said, "Them's the rules".

_________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Guest






Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2020 8:53 am    Post subject:

Thanks for the reply Choco it's more than the ASRF bothered to give me,
I still can't see why clubs are privy to certain information which should be available to EVERYONE that pays his dues lone wolf or not, I'm not just talking about voting, They have a reasonably good publication that comes out 1/4tly Why isn't all the information printed in it for ALL of us to share..what's the problem with that?
I benefit from the ASRF and all it's done for the hobby and continue to do so...If i choose to bail out and not pay my dues, I still get all the hard fought benefits the ASRF has achieved over the years, the way I see it, is all I'll lose is a magazine and get to spend the membership fee on my car instead of wasting it on the federation which isn't giving all us lone wolfs a fair go...yes I know it's club based and politics are a natural part of a democratic society, but why don't they published a voting slip in the mag. It's my choice to vote, whether the repose from lone wolfs be good or bad 1 or 100 our vote should still be counted, one federation for ALL members and not just the privleged clubs!
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Pep
500RPM



Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 543
Location: Georges Hall, NSW

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2020 9:26 am    Post subject:

You have travelled the same path as me and I have come to the conclusion that there are rodders that get noticed and acknowledged and then there's us. How do you get noticed?....beats me...have a bit of history in the hobby perhaps...be a respected builder of rods.....know a lot of people here and around the world....have some reputation..it all counts. I know that going to a DC meeting and voicing your opinon would like p-ssing in the wind. I've heard enough about other lone wolves trying to get their point across at DC meetings and getting howled down by the club guys....thats less likely to happen if you are one of the classes I mentioned above. Choco says that the issue of one vote per member was put to a referendum and failed miserably through lack of response...I don't recall that happenening..well not in the past 8 years at least, but my memory may be fading. Still, as the issue of monarchy and republic keeps being revived, this needs to happen as well...but I bet it won't. It would complicate the harmony that exists in the ASRF now. It would be interseting to hear why the ASRF won't do it....All they need to do is exactly the same thing as the recent ballot for accepting later model cars into the ASRF. The ballot paper was included in the magazine and we just filled it out and posted it back. I can also bet that if push came to shove, all they will do is present it at club level only and leave us out of the loop.


see ya
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Pep
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choco
500RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 532
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2020 10:35 am    Post subject:

I think you guys are missing the point. Voting on ASRF issues is not the same as holding a referendum. The DC meets once a month and tables certain items that club delegates have taken to their clubs for discussion. Once a quarter, the State Directors meet at a NCC so that all the items can be voted on and decisions made. We have had a couple of referendums. The first one was several years ago (someone else come up with the year???) on the one member, one vote thing. I think it was around the mid-late 80's??? The recent referendum was based on the "rules" used for the first one, but I don't want to go into the details of that shit-fight because I might say something that I'll regret later.
The point is, voting on ASRF items is NOT like a referendum. Organising such a thing for every decision that has to be made would be a bloody nightmare and nothing would ever get resolved. So how do you think you Lone Wolves (ie, non-affiliated club individual, financial ASRF members) would get to have your vote counted, should such a system be implemented? That would mean the current system would have to be dismantled. That is, each member of an affiliated club would have to vote at a DC. Alternatively, the club could weigh their vote in accordance with their membership.
Think about it - you (a Lone Wolf) bring to the DC one vote. A club delegate brings to the DC 50 votes because their club membership is 50 (whether all the members were present at the discussion or not).
OR...
You (the Lone Wolf) brings to the DC your single vote. The club delegate brings to the DC one vote. The club has 50 members but has the same weight as one Lone Wolf.
No thanks. I'll stick with the status quo because it is far more even handed and fair than either of those two scenarios.
I also reckon you have a good point concerning the details that get published in the ASRF Newsletter. It is short on content and needs addressing. I shall pass this info on to my own State Director and ask that more effort be put into addressing these concerns. It's not enough that the National Coordinator scribbles a couple of paragraphs for the secretary/publisher to knock into shape. I do believe that individual members can receive the DC minutes. Maybe DC secretaries can email them to individuals who request them? Provided, of course, that those same individuals are financial (which they can check).
To take it one step further, maybe the minutes should be made available on the ASRF web site? Regardless of the fact that Greg probably has more important things to do, it would certainly promote an open, more transparent ASRF. Secretaries may simply be required to submit minutes in Word format and Greg publishes PDF versions on the web. Those without Web savvy or access could get their nerd mates to print out copies for them.
I dunno, whaddaya think?
_________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Pep
500RPM



Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 543
Location: Georges Hall, NSW

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2020 11:45 am    Post subject:

Choco, I haven't missed the point. What I was saying is that the constitution is set up to have a club delegate represent his/her club with a single vote on issues. That part of the constitution needs to be changed so a fairer reflection can be achieved and that is what I am referring to with the voting slip in the magazine, to change that part of the constitution to allow single vote per member.

Why does a club of say 60 members have the same weight as a club with 10. Or why does a more active club only have the same weight as less caring clubs. We all know that there are dominant officials in clubs that push their own points to their members and all information is filtered by their delegates to their members from DC meetings. A bit of poetic licence and personal biases are common and used to cast a solitary vote on behalf of his/her club. Look, I know it would be a bit harder to operate but if all voting was recorded with the member number, then it would be made easier, we do live in a new world with PCs with applications that can take a lot of the work away. Anyone should be able to table a motion as long as they have say, 10 supporters. That motion should then be debated at the club level then voted on within a cut off date. All recorded votes, with member numbers are then forwarded onto the ASRF. Lone wolves and club members that are PC savy could cast their vote over the net. Whats wrong with that idea?




see ya
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Pep
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choco
500RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 532
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2020 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Perfectly sound idea, Pep, but for one problem - most rodders are "slightly less" computer savvy than us. As for having a voting slip in the newsletter, I assume you are referring to single-issue voting. That's subject to some controversy, for a number of reasons.
In the last referendum, it was an issue that individual members didn't get a vote. Why is that, when every newsletter had a voting slip? Beats me. In addition, the rules for the first referendum were used, ie, for the vote to be valid, a 75% return is required. Without wanting to stir the pot with lurkers, this figure wasn't anywhere near achieved, which brings me to this last point - apathy.
No matter what system is employed, apathy will be a dominant factor. It's easy enough to say, well, let the ones who care enough to get off their arses and vote have the say. But it doesn't work out like this, especially when armchair lawyers start jumping up and down because they have found a "flaw" in the process.
I have found, over the years, that most "thinking" rodders will listen to a good argument and draw their own conclusions. Which way the thinking goes depends on how strong a case the pros and cons put forward. I think you'd agree that this is something that some people do better than others. I also put it to you that, in most cases, the argument is lop-sided because of the undisciplined structure of the NCC, and I don't mean that as a direct criticism of the people in those positions, because it's not. There are a lot of "old boys" that have too much say in the way the ASRF does business, and this would be alleviated simply by putting in place the measures we have been discussing here, that is, a more transparent, "user-friendly" NCC. I believe that change is already upon us, although the wheels turn slowly. There are many of us around that chose to stay and be supportive while bringing about change when it was obviously needed (Penrith NAts) and just as many who threw up their hands in disgust and left altogether. Those that left had no say in the changes that, to this day, are still evolving, and some of them are the same "old boys" that you alluded to in a previous post. They seem to get more of an ear than the Lone Wolves who give a stuff and many of the young guns that are coming along. I think you'll find that, as a few more "old boys" go into retirement, many of the reforms that are needed will get a fair hearing, and who knows? Maybe the one member, one vote will finally fly, after all these years.
_________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Mr X
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Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject:

We'll I guess until us lone wolfs get a fair go or some of the suggestions get implamented that pep, choco and myself have discussed or the ASRF shows some consideration to us individuals, I'd be better off saving my money and spending it elsewhere, 'cos I'm buggered if I have to wait until the old guard is replaced to be heard or to share in the the privy information available to clubs only...after all I really don't make a bit of difference. So as famous last words go "They can stick it"
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choco
500RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 532
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject:

Well, Mr X, whoever you are, I guess there's no way that you'll see anything but headlights at the end of the tunnel. I have a more positive attitude, and as long as my bum points to the ground, I will support the national body for the hobby that I have chosen and accept that its shortcomings are a part of what makes us human. Sadly, the day will never come when you NEED the ASRF, because there is sufficient support to carry people, such as yourself, through any rodding dilema that faces us in the forseeable future.
Good luck, and I'll see ya around.
Well, you'll see me, anyway.
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mrs x
Guest





Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2020 10:32 pm    Post subject: lone wolf

hey pep it sounds like your on the right track no good trying to talk to a brainwashed old bible basher,ala choco.as you can see he is biased to the original rodder that he called a lone wolf ,on previous conversations with ala choco he declines to answer questions witch he himself has posted,i like your lone wolf idea though,might just catch on,
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ripper
200rpm



Joined: 12 Jun 2021
Posts: 213
Location: West Aust.

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2020 9:53 pm    Post subject:

This issue is covered in greater depth in the post "Lone Wolf Club".
Thought I'd mention it here in case a lurker bumped into this thread without readign the other.

Before anyone goes & joins any group, you'd think they'd do a bit of background & find out what they're about.

As stated in the other thread, The Aust Street Rod Federation isn't a "club" it's a "FEDERATION" of clubs.
Big big difference.

Do your homework before you join, otherwise there's every potential you'll end up disgruntled & want to change things. Things which are that way for a very good reason. Every time I hear this whinge about individual ASRF members not getting a DC vote, I wonder how on earth anyone can arrive at such a outrageous position, why it was never explained to them properly or why didn't they understand it.

If there's any real big problem in the ASRF, it's probably a poor communication problem between the new member writing his/her first cheque out to the ASRF & the person taking the money.

Strikes me as absurd all the many times I've heard the Lone Wolf club thing put forward to. Don't want to be in a club, but want a DC vote so we'll form a club, but it's not a club but it'll have a DC vote...but we're not a club unless they ask...then we're a club, but we're not a club. We'll have a DC rep but no voting

You gotta have a constitution, proper elections, a certain amount of members to get a DC vote. There is criteria & it's set up to stop individuals taking control of the ASRF & leaving the ownership of the ASRF to those who are the real proper genuine owners...the Federation of clubs & all their members. For more comments on the REAL situation of the ASRF have a gander at the Lone Wolf Thread.

Choco a bible basher?
I'd have my doubts
He has a stance because he does know what the ASRF is/was & probably will be.

FWIW I agree with his stance, but before I understood the full facts I too would have been found on the side not agreeing with Choco. I'm pretty happy to be quick to say I was bloody wrong & feel pretty glad I got the full facts before I made an arse of myself...of course I could always whinge under a no-name handle in a forum where maybe not the whole ASRF members or DC reps go

The merchants of change really need to understand what the hell the ASRF is before they start declaring change is needed. Pretty hard to know what to change to & whether it'll be better when you don't know what it is & does in the first place.

For the record, DC minutes are (unless I'm horribly wrong) available to any & all ASRF members upon request. In WA they're actually published in every edition of Rodtork.

There is no secret society. There is no menacing conspiracy. There is no elite exploiting the Individual members.
Sheesh...my spleen is well vented, now time to go back into the shed & put some vents in my bonnet
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