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Need some advice from the EFI guru please.
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bcal
1000RPM



Joined: 04 Feb 2021
Posts: 1020
Location: The Shire, Sydney

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2020 5:08 pm    Post subject: Need some advice from the EFI guru please.

Choco.
I have a 350 chev with a holley and sheís cranky bitch when cold.
I also have a lonely megasquirt ECU thatís looking for an engine to tame.
I figure these two have just gotta meet.

I donít want this to turn into a major project so what do you reckon is the simplest way to go about getting these two together
Thereís this old holley in the shed that has equal sized butterflies.
Iím thinking, why not use this as a throttle body and simply mount a spacer plate underneath with 4 injectors.
Not quite as good as MPI but gotta be better than the carby.
What ya reckon.
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Brett.
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spoolin_20B
Just Idling



Joined: 21 Mar 2021
Posts: 188
Location: S.A the closet rodder state

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2020 2:59 pm    Post subject:

yea that would work

put a throttle positon sessor on teh card

you could mount 8 injectors putting them in the inlet manafold runners, be better to tune then, and you would need smaller injedtors then as well

plus wou would need a map sensor and a O2 sensor as well

cheers
shane
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bcal
1000RPM



Joined: 04 Feb 2021
Posts: 1020
Location: The Shire, Sydney

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2020 11:37 am    Post subject:

Hmm.... The guru is quiet on EFI
spoolin wrote:
you could mount 8 injectors putting them in the inlet manafold runners, be better to tune then, and you would need smaller injedtors then as well

I think 8 injectors would be an overkill on TBI.
I don't want to replace my manifold coz it's painted to match the rest of the engine so I'm looking for a bolt on option.
In Choco's book is a pic of a Holley TBI which has 4 throttle bodies with 4 injectors underneath but it'a a bit exy for a tight wad like me.
What I was thinking of doing was gutting out the old squarebore I have and setting up the throttle plates to open together.
Then I'll make up a 2'' spacer plate which will house 4X50lb ?? injectors.
The plate will be bored to the same dimentions as the squarebore.

This should give me the neat look of carburation with the tunability of EFI.
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Brett.
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Mr Cool
1000RPM



Joined: 27 Sep 2020
Posts: 1286
Location: Bacchus Marsh, Vic

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2020 12:51 pm    Post subject:

bcal wrote:
Hmm.... The guru is quiet on EFI

Isnt he in the USA at the moment?
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choco
1000RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 1070
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2020 6:02 pm    Post subject:

I'm back!
Brett, I have always maintained that using a carb as a throttle body creates too much turbulence to tune properly. However, I have been put in my place more than once by people who have used carbs as throttle bodies with some success. With Holleys, you should blank off the throttle plates after removing the bowls, or fill all the orifices and channels with epoxy. Remove all the squirters and objects that may create obstructions to the air as it flows down the venturis. There are always a few Holley ProJection throttle bodies around on eBay. They are pretty cheap because Holeey never got these things to work very well, but with a Megasquirt they would go great.
You might also consider getting a TPI manifold and plenum - they are pretty thick on the wrecking yard ground in the US, and I've seen several go pretty cheap on eBay.
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Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
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Pep
1000RPM



Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 1203
Location: Georges Hall, NSW

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2020 9:54 am    Post subject:

The early EA Fords had TBI that I was thinking about. A mate is mating one up to his Y Block and using a MegaSquirt. The 350 might need something bigger though, so machining the venturis might be possible, or just ratting it out to transfer the good guts onto a Holley carb.
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bcal
1000RPM



Joined: 04 Feb 2021
Posts: 1020
Location: The Shire, Sydney

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2020 4:23 pm    Post subject:

Thanx Choco
Thanx Pep

Most of the Rochester / Holley TBIs are low pressure blow down the hole setups whereas what I'm looking at doing is mounting the injectors under the throttle plates and running at 43lb.
Something like this is what I have in mind...
http://www.speed-technology.com/efi_throttle.html
I could make up something similar using the throttle plate of the squarebore and fitting a 2'' spacer under it with the injectors.
So why don't I just out and buy one then.
Well that's not how I get my jollies. I'd rather spend hours fabricating some heap of crap that only works half as good before I wake up and buy the genuine item. Crazy I know but so's hotrodding

I'm thinking of converting the Alfarod back to carbs coz I reckon it'd sell better that way and then using all the bits on the chev.
Choco do you think the VK 6 Bosch FP will flow enough for a 350?
If I go that way I'll have 4X46mm motor cycle throttle bodies that have built in injector bungs.
Maybe I could do something like this..
http://www.katicore.com.au/default_files/Page1837.htm
Hmmm very
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Malcolmsp
Just Idling



Joined: 13 May 2021
Posts: 109

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2020 5:55 pm    Post subject:

Buy another set of bike carbs for the other side of the chev and use them.

Stack injection...go on...you know you want to!

cya
Mal
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choco
1000RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 1070
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2020 8:58 pm    Post subject:

bcal wrote:
Thanx Choco
Thanx Pep

Most of the Rochester / Holley TBIs are low pressure blow down the hole setups whereas what I'm looking at doing is mounting the injectors under the throttle plates and running at 43lb.
Something like this is what I have in mind...
http://www.speed-technology.com/efi_throttle.html
I could make up something similar using the throttle plate of the squarebore and fitting a 2'' spacer under it with the injectors.


Been there, done that. The Holley, Edelbrock, MSD, etc billet throttle bodies are just like those available from EFI Hardware (Speed Technology). I have two of their MPI throttle bodies (air valves) on my Mopar 360 in the Plymouth and one TBI billet TB sitting in my shelf gathering dust (found it on eBay for the right price and snapped it up). Make me an offer around $500. It has four injectors of unknown size, fuel rails, IAC, TPS, throttle stop and cable drive all ready for ya!
Alternatively, use a Holley throttle plate, a TPS from a little jap car and a rermote IAC, and build a plate to house some injectors like you said. Or try a Chev V6 2 barrel TB and a 4 barrel squarebore adaptor from Painless Wiring. There's tons of ways to do it. My way, however, is the easiest and worth the piddling amount of money I am asking.
_________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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bcal
1000RPM



Joined: 04 Feb 2021
Posts: 1020
Location: The Shire, Sydney

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2020 8:06 pm    Post subject:

Thanx Choco, l'll give it some careful consideration.

Mal, stop messin with my mind
Very tempting but after months of tuning the ITBs on the Alfarod I now know all about trying to run closed loop with low vacuum pulsating signals.
Alpha N mode.
Nah not for this car.
maybe next one tho
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Brett.
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choco
1000RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 1070
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2020 7:54 am    Post subject:

bcal wrote:
Thanx Choco, l'll give it some careful consideration.

Mal, stop messin with my mind
Very tempting but after months of tuning the ITBs on the Alfarod I now know all about trying to run closed loop with low vacuum pulsating signals.
Alpha N mode.
Nah not for this car.
maybe next one tho


I had the same problem with a local guy with a 265 hemi in his Charger. He had Kalmaker and couldn't get it to run. He had a whopping 300+ degree cam, and three commodore throttle bodies on a triple weber manifold. The MAP signal was all over the place. When he switched to TPS mode, it ran like a dream!
_________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Pep
1000RPM



Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 1203
Location: Georges Hall, NSW

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2020 9:33 am    Post subject:

I recall reading that either Kalmaker or Megasquirt now offer a system that uses just TPS under a certain rev so you can run big cams and small phelumns...as in Hillborn or similar set ups.
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32coupe
200rpm



Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Posts: 215
Location: Canberra

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2020 10:24 am    Post subject:

Why not try LPG, you can bolt an Impco 425 directly onto your Holley base plate. And think of the money that you will save.
And as far as horsepower, how much do you want?
There are guys out there who are getting more than they need with LPG.
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Petrol is shit.
And if you havn't figured it out yet.
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choco
1000RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 1070
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2020 11:50 am    Post subject:

Pep wrote:
I recall reading that either Kalmaker or Megasquirt now offer a system that uses just TPS under a certain rev so you can run big cams and small phelumns...as in Hillborn or similar set ups.

Yes, Kalmaker has this, but in this case, the MAP reading was too eratic across the rev range. You can run very lumpy cams in closed loop with Kalmaker, but it requires a bit of fiddling with some of the more obscure maps. There are over 400 calibrations you can make with Kalmaker, so when the guy gets more experienced, he'll try and set up his engine in closed loop for cruise.
_________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Franky
Cruisin



Joined: 18 Jun 2021
Posts: 333
Location: Darwin

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2020 5:10 pm    Post subject:

Sorry to hijack, But while choco is there.
Do you think this will work? 308-336 stroker with tunnel ram, remove top plenum, fabricate box to sit on top with 2x V6 throttle bodies out the front similiar to TPI set up.
This is LPG setup only so am looking at them baby basic mixers that the commodes use on the end of the throttle bodies, with a complex converter, Then later throw 2x (300ZX single turbo) turbo's on....... And finally is $50 per throttle body excessive.
Cheers..
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