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Mr. X
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2020 9:07 am    Post subject: Lone Wolf Club

As a non club member would it be possible to start a "Lone wolf club" (an oximoron if ever I've heard one), that would represent us to the ASRF as a collective, Is this how the "goodguys" got started in the states? How would it administered? perhaps we could use this web site or create one of our own sites or the asrf could set up a section on their web site that we could get a vote on, after all it wouldn't be that hard...would it? , Is it time that the old guard at the asrf pulled their collective heads out of the sand and started seriously thinking about using the technology available to create a fairer voting and information system ..we are living in 2002 and almost everyone has access to the net, All that's needed is password access to the voting section and one vote per person..too easy!! It's no wonder that there's such an apathetic respose to issues that need to voted on... putting pen to paper spending money on a stamp driving to the mail box..ahh it's all too hard
Now having said that let me say this.........
What about setting up a page where we can lodge a partition via email with everyone's point of view and email it the asrf to show them how many lone wolfs are out there with voices that count and need to be heard
Mr.X

Come on guys(gals) lets get stuck into them!! If we do NOTHING but talk about it NOTHING gets done!!! let us all know how you feel about the suggestions I have raised maybe we could start by emailing this string
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Pep
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Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 1080
Location: Georges Hall, NSW

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2020 9:47 am    Post subject:

Mr X...that would be too much like a potential overthrow for the ASRF to agree to. Having a bunch of renegades hijack their association...that does sound a lot like the Goodguys. Working within the ASRF guide lines does make it possible for "Lone Wolves" to combine as one voice and work as a club. You only need 10 guys ( or gals ) to form a club. You are not obliged to have compulsory meetings and in fact can be 100s of Kms apart. You will then be treated like every other rod club and get the same voting rights. The problem we will have is agreeing on issues...sounds like other clubs to me. If you are still keen on forming a Lone Wolf club, get a copy of the constitution and study it. The best way to force change is within and use their own rules. I know one rule we seem to agree on is one vote per member, that, we could focus on in the Lone Wolf club. The ASRF would have to listen to us. If you are still keen on this...email me.


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choco
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Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 961
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2020 1:50 pm    Post subject:

Geez, what does it take to get the message across?
The ASRF ("THEM") is led by a bunch of ordinary, everyday rodders. Like ordinary, everyday rodders, they sit around talking about beam axles, bigs and littles, horsepower, blue dots, four bars and stuff. They have a beer, then talk about issues with rodders in different parts of the country. When you get this concept straight in your heads, then you can make a bit of headway with your concerns. Forget about having an on line vote, or spreading the info around via the ASRF web site, it ain't gonna happen!
A bunch of renegades trying to hijack the association? Get real! The last time something like that happened, it was a dismal failure and the pre 48 register paled into insignificance.
Let me say it again, fellas...
As Pep said, you can only make change from within. So become a member, form a club if you like - as an aside, our club (the CHRA) was instrumental in having the ASRF constitution changed to allow club membership to include non-ASRF members, or "associates". Before this, it was compulsory for all club members to be financial ASRF members. As long as the requisite number of ASRF members are in the club (10 to form and 8 to maintain) then it's OK.
It may be nice to continue this one-sided on-line babble about issues such as one member one vote, but don't expect a member of the board of the ASRF to pick it up and show it to the CEO - it doesn't work like that. Your State Director is obliged to raise the issue at a national level if you bring it to the table, that is, to a DC meeting. Get off your collective arses and make it happen!
And for fuck's sake, be nice to each other!
_________________
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mrs x
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Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2020 10:54 pm    Post subject: lone wolf

temper temper choco.it is possible to start an alternative club or association but run it seperate from the asrf,anythings possible.the way i see it is if you as an individual join a club witch is in the asrf .the information that trickles out of the asrf,goes to the clubs ,but the clubs dont pass on the information properly to the members,it is usually mentioned in briefly,not in depth.it may work close to the asrf headquarters ,or within that state,it doesnt allways comply to other states,
because of the distances things begin to break down.what we all need is correct information,when we need it. it would be great to see a web site that deals with information to be shared with everyone.
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choco
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Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 961
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: lone wolf

mrs x wrote:
temper temper choco.


I'm not losing my temper. I'm cool.

mrs x wrote:
it is possible to start an alternative club or association but run it seperate from the asrf,anythings possible.


Yes, of course it's possible, and there are many clubs around, even very prestigious ones like the Dragens. The Dragens are outside the ASRF (not affiliated) because of a long standing argument about "control". They disagree that ALL members of a club MUST be ASRF members. Now that the constitution has been changed to allow that, they are still choosing to remain a non-ASRF club. That's their business, and most of the Dragens are individual ASRF members anyway.

mrs x wrote:
the way i see it is if you as an individual join a club witch is in the asrf .the information that trickles out of the asrf,goes to the clubs ,but the clubs dont pass on the information properly to the members,it is usually mentioned in briefly,not in depth.


That is the fault of the delegate. I have lived and rodded in SA, Vic, NSW and ACT. All those states provided the minutes of DC meetings to club delegates, so there was no excuse for not having ALL the info available. If the information wasn't available, then the delegate wasn't doing his/her duty, or there was no delegate.

mrs x wrote:
it may work close to the asrf headquarters ,or within that state,it doesnt allways comply to other states,
because of the distances things begin to break down.what we all need is correct information,when we need it. it would be great to see a web site that deals with information to be shared with everyone.


That is the first sensible thing you have said. At each state's DC, they are obliged to discuss matters of a NATIONAL nature and take these matters back to their respective clubs for discussion and to bring the results of those discussions back to the DC. To have all this info readily available and distributed to everyone in a timely manner (such as the ASRF web site) would be a bonus. But that brings with it some matters of concern (to a lot of people). Such as:
1. Who will be responsible for publishing? It's a big task, and the ASRF web master is VERY VERY busy already. In addition, I don't think I know of any ASRF secretary that knows (or wants to know) how to serve up the minutes of the DC meeting to the ASRF Web master.
2. Not all State Directors and delegates want their dirty laundry aired for all to see. At the moment, it's the State Directors (via their delegates) who share all the info, to be churned up inside their heads and spewed out at a NCC meeting or phone hook-up. Some matters require careful deliberation and diplomacy, and many see this process in jeopardy if everyone is privy to ALL the goss.
3. You are seeing much of what MIGHT take place right here, on this forum, should such a process be made available.
4. Non-computer rodders would be left out, and there's a lot of them. The medium for distributing information must include non-electronic forms, such as newsletters and magazines.

Now open your mind, and read carefully the following, without malice aforethought......

While I take offence to many of the things you might say, I'm sure that you yourself are often "amused" or even incensed, by the things that I might say. Personally, I accept almost every point you have made during these "conversations" but I have differing opinions and bona fide reasons that qualify me to make a response. I have been a card carrying ASRF member since 1974, have built and driven my own Hot Rods in that time, have lived all across Australia as well as the US and always been involved in rodding. Not just the cars, but the politics, too. Like being a club official (President, Secretary, Treasurer, committee, etc) like being an ASRF official (Secretary, Treasurer, Delegate, Nationals Committees) like being on rod run committees and leading those committees. I've done it all, and believe me, it's not all beer and skittles! There are some people out there who have some serious attitude problems, that make you look like Cinderella! But I have had to deal with them again and again, because they seriously threaten the future of my chosen hobby. In a different thread, you called me a "bible basher" and "brainwashed". All unfair labels. I'm not religious (except that I worship Lee Iococca) and I'm not brainwashed. It's just that I've been around for so long across so many different car cultures that I know, by experience, the danger of a divided rodding community. We rodders have a common enemy, the bureaucracy, and we must all come together at some point. It's OK to agree to disagree on some things, but somewhere there's got to be common ground. All I ask is that you acknowledge that I MIGHT have something to offer, and that it's POSSIBLE you are wrong about the benefits of being an integral part of the ASRF. Dwell on that for just a moment in a calm, positive and objective manner. You don't know me personally, and I don't know you. Aside from the fact that you are anonymous, I probably wouldn't know you if I fell over you, but that wouldn't matter to me because, if you are a rodder, I'd have a beer with you regardless. On the other hand, you know who I am, and can ask anyone in your rodding circles about me and you'll get a response, both good and bad (more good than bad). I write this with no malice, no prejudice and no ill-feeling, just like all my other posts. If I've offended you, I apologise, it was not my intent. Blame this bland form of communication (emails and BB text) but I am not a malicious person - I'm a lover, not a fighter.
And I really, really love Hot Rods!

_________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
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mrs x
Guest





Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2020 1:17 am    Post subject: hot rods

choco,you devil.your chosen affilliation,not only descriminates against the individual.wich in a democratic society would be deemed illegal,eg not sending out full information ,to the individual who actually pays more money and cannot vote ,than the individual who joins thruogh a club,also the average rodder who is not in your affiliation,is not welcome to attend santioned events,it does seem a bit like a union setup.you may be happy bieng a cardboard cutout,but i see the reasons for you doing so,the bureacracy are way ahead of us in many ways,they make up silly proposed law changes just to get us going ,the asrf as well,by the time there silly law change has been dissmissed,they have bought in suttle law changes that do not arouse suspision,and are passed into law.how long do you think the asrf can handle this not very long at all,they have had some succsess in the past but it is fast becomeing a new ball game ,best left to the experts,and even they may not help you see the whole thing is geared to the goverment side anyway.if you think a bunch of guys sitting around a lamanex table drinking beer and wearing thongs are going to secure things you have to be joking.cheers
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choco
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Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 961
Location: Queanbeyan, NSW (on the ACT border)

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2020 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: hot rods

mrs x wrote:
choco,you devil.your chosen affilliation,not only descriminates against the individual.wich in a democratic society would be deemed illegal,


What a load of shit! There is NO discrimination, it's quite clearly stated in the ASRF constitution and rule book that it is CLUB BASED! If it was illegal, how come it's been around for so long?

mrs x wrote:
eg not sending out full information ,


Agreed. This needs to be addressed, but anyone has access to the "full information" by attending the DC meetings in person.

mrs x wrote:
to the individual who actually pays more money and cannot vote ,than the individual who joins thruogh a club,


Every individual member gets the newsletter and everyone has access to the ASRF web site. Again, everyone has access to the DC meetings.

mrs x wrote:
also the average rodder who is not in your affiliation,is not welcome to attend santioned events,


Now that statement is way out of line! You are free and welcome to attend ANY sanctioned event. Any show, rod run or cruise sanctioned by the ASRF is OPEN TO ALL RODDERS who fit the criteria of the event. The sanction is applied for BY THE ORGANISING CLUB, or promoter or individual so that ASRF members are covered by public liability and street rod rego/concessional rego persons can get a number. No one gives a flying fuck whether you are a member or not, just don't whinge if you run over the toes of a member of the public and they sue you. This protection, on its own, is worth the membership fees.

mrs x wrote:
it does seem a bit like a union setup.


Yeah, it does, doesn't it? I was in the Navy for 20 years, I'm now a contractor, and I'm about as anti-union as you can get.

mrs x wrote:
you may be happy bieng a cardboard cutout,


Mate, you are way off - obviously you didn't bother to ask "who's this Choco prick?"

mrs x wrote:
but i see the reasons for you doing so,the bureacracy are way ahead of us in many ways,they make up silly proposed law changes just to get us going ,the asrf as well,by the time there silly law change has been dissmissed,they have bought in suttle law changes that do not arouse suspision,and are passed into law.how long do you think the asrf can handle this not very long at all,they have had some succsess in the past but it is fast becomeing a new ball game ,


Hey, you're right! The price of democracy is eternal vigilance. As the ASRF (and FHVA and ASMF and KOA, etc) grow in numbers, so too does the pool of information. If you are on your own - well, you figure it out.
The ASRF is, I suppose, a bureaucracy on its own, but at least we, the members, make up that bureaucracy. We can, and do, have access to the bureaucracy.


mrs x wrote:
best left to the experts,and even they may not help you


Oh really? And who are the "experts"? If the "experts" are not ladies and gentlemen sourced from within the rodding community, then we are doomed! The ASRF is the National Body for the Street/Hot Rodding movement in this country, like it or not, so the "experts" will come from here. The TAC, the National Rego Scheme spokespersons, and each state's liason with the bureaucrats is derived (predominantly) from ASRF sources.

mrs x wrote:
see the whole thing is geared to the goverment side anyway.if you think a bunch of guys sitting around a lamanex table drinking beer and wearing thongs are going to secure things you have to be joking.cheers


Your negative outlook is a sad reflection of your attitude. Not once have you suggested a solution to any of the problems, and you have failed to "open your mind" to any of the counter-arguments. Obviously you are set in your ways and either can't be or won't be swayed by popular opinion or in the face of overwhelming evidence. I make no apologies for my commitment, not only to the ASRF (and what it stands for) but to the protection of my chosen hobby.

I won't bother you any more, whoever you are.
_________________
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Frank Choco Munday, Technical Author
Hot Rod Handbooks
Phone: 0412 883 235 or (02) 6255 9810
Carburettors SUCK!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Brootal
1000RPM



Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Posts: 1289
Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2020 1:25 pm    Post subject: What the..?

mrs x wrote:
also the average rodder who is not in your affiliation,is not welcome to attend santioned events


I'm sorry, but I'll have to pipe up following this comment.

How can you POSSIBLY say that? I always attend ASRF events, I don't have an ASRF class car as it's too new (1967), but me and my car are always welcome at any event I have ever attended.

Unless you are walking around with a "I HATE THE ASRF" T-shirt on, I don't see how anyone would know (or care) that you weren't in the ASRF. I know Choco and Pep personally, both are great guys and very clever Hot Rodders and I don't give a rats about whether or not they're in the ASRF.

I'm about to start building a Hot Rod, so I WILL be joining the ASRF. I may or may not join a club, but as far as I am concerned, it will be worth it just for the contacts and the information that I'm sure I will be able to find if and when I need it.

Somehow I think you have a slightly skewed perception of the ASRF. It would be interesting to know how it got so warped.

I was going to say something about your spelling and grammar, but I decided against it... Whoops! I guess I just did.
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Pep
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Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 1080
Location: Georges Hall, NSW

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2020 10:29 am    Post subject:

Now that statement is way out of line! You are free and welcome to attend ANY sanctioned event. Any show, rod run or cruise sanctioned by the ASRF is OPEN TO ALL RODDERS who fit the criteria of the event.

Every individual member gets the newsletter and everyone has access to the ASRF web site. Again, everyone has access to the DC meetings.


Geez...this is a touchy subject and one that no one will agree on...or more to the point, will admit to. Since I'm right smack dab in the middle...as in not anti ASRF and a non club member to boot I think I can be a little more objective than some. Firstly....the Nationals is only open to ASRF members...but a little birdy told me that some non ASRF members were offered entry last time, so that would rule out any insurance issues that might be thrown up. Secondy Choco...you can't have it both ways, If most rodders aren't computer literate you can't then go and say that the information is available on the ASRF web site to inform the non club rodders whats going on, especially when the site doesn't relay the information.


All those states provided the minutes of DC meetings to club delegates, so there was no excuse for not having ALL the info available. If the information wasn't available, then the delegate wasn't doing his/her duty, or there was no delegate.



We are talking about non club guys here Choco...where do we get this info...Oh yeah the DC meeting that is structured toward the club guys...and its a one way path as well.


Not all State Directors and delegates want their dirty laundry aired for all to see. At the moment, it's the State Directors (via their delegates) who share all the info, to be churned up inside their heads and spewed out at a NCC meeting or phone hook-up. Some matters require careful deliberation and diplomacy, and many see this process in jeopardy if everyone is privy to ALL the goss.

How am I supposed to interpret that Choco?...secret ASRF business or something...If any of this business has a "why" then its the members business to know, it souldn't be a secret society.


I have been a card carrying ASRF member since 1974, have built and driven my own Hot Rods in that time, have lived all across Australia as well as the US and always been involved in rodding. Not just the cars, but the politics, too. Like being a club official (President, Secretary, Treasurer, committee, etc) like being an ASRF official (Secretary, Treasurer, Delegate, Nationals Committees) like being on rod run committees and leading those committees. I've done it all,


As I said in my original post...you have gained the attention of the ASRF and get a response when you ask or talk...you are not in our shoes here Choco.


Look, my main gripe is the fact that the ASRF is Club based...and I will look up the constitution to see if it does in fact say that but if it does, then it should not take fees off individual members without giving them an oportunity to have their input. This is probably what started the Goodguys in the US. Representation of some and not all...As I said also, I will remain in the ASRF as its the only game in town and the only body representing our hobby that the beaurocrats will listen to...at present.
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Mr X
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Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2020 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

That's right choco you're not in the individuals shoes, maybe you should jump the fence and take a good hard look from our perspective, we are not against the asrf, we are for it, remember we are members!! All I'm asking for is a fair go, All you've got to say is that I'm whinging and bashing the asrf well that's crap! You're the opinionated one that's bashing me, take a good look at what you write and study the self rightious remarks you make to me and other individual members, are you the voice of the asrf ? do you make the dissions for them? you talk about negitive attitudes, one can't help but have have a negitive attitude with guys like you shouting us individual members down every time we have something to say, It seems you have all the answers choco so I suppose I should just shut the F up! would that make you and your club members happy?
Let me ask this does anyone know exactly how many individual asrf members there are?
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Drewfus
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Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 91
Location: Newcastle, Australia

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject:

Sad, disapointing, and disheartening.

I look at the crap being nitpicked above, and I wonder why people bother.


mmmmm . Trying to get back to the plot. Maybe we should take a few steps back.

Apart from all that crap, I'll aim to explain my perception on Peps point, about taking the cash but not listening to the individual.

1. go back and read Choco's initial, well explained 'technical' approach detailing the logisitics that would be required to pull such theory off.

2. Think of the ASRF as a workplace. The company in question promotes a product, in this case, Hot/Street rodding (whatever the individual prefference).
There is a chain of command, from the Management, to the middlemanagement, to the foremen(and women), through to the individual worker out working in the shed , you and I. Now we all have a role to play, with the decisions being made through the various levels of control. If you and I have a problem, or a suggestion, we contact the appropriate 'next-in-charge' who, where the topic is either dealt with, or, where appropriate, forwards the topic to a level which discuss and resolves the issue at hand.
Now as the issue gets bigger, the topic is dealt with by the appropriate representitive. For example, if the company (at a management level) decides to promote its product by having a 'field day'(or National's), then a 'Nationals Committee' is created, who directs the event, and looks after the details, incorperating the appropriate feedback and information from its various levels of buisiness (ie from Management throught to employees at the ground level). There are big decisions made and little decisions made.
Throughout the entire process appropriate information is released to the various employees through a newsletter or the like, about decisions made, requests for info, who's doing what, and whats new.

Naturally, all employees are involve, and kept informed, AS APPROPRIATE.

Again, some decisions are made at a higher level than others, fair enough, for example why should all employees need to decide on which suppliers get what standing, or if we should have the Club stand at the north end of the park or the south. Some decisions are made by the various committees who are representing the other employees or associates.

What is all this waffle got to do with the topic at hand.

Basically, the ASRF has a chain of representitives, and similarly, levels of management which resolve the various issues at hand. Now, as history has led us down the path that :
- individuals meet at a club level to discuss topic (local level)
- representitives of club meet with statereps to discuss (DC or level)
- the representitives of the DC (state reps) meet other state reps (national level)

BUT what about joe blogs lone wolf member doesnt he get a say, has he/she no rights? well yes and no. as suggested above, history has created a structure that deals with individuals issues from a club level on. To keep J.B. individual informed he/she is invited to attend the appropriate DC meeting, and be involved on a lower level/ or if he'she was smart or willing, attend a local club meeting, not as a member, but as a spectator to be informed.

Does this individual have the right to vote on topic. Basically no. Without aiming to offend, the ASRF is club based, trying to bring rodders together, with the intent to stride forward as a group, so until the individual gets involved, with the other rodders, their 'day-by-day' input to the organisation is limited.
But what about the individuals getting the right to vote at a DC level? can you imagine the logistics of such a thing? voting on evey single matter, informing people, getting a response, collecting the votes, on and on and on and on.

Basically that's why clubs are important, they are the foremen of the chain of business, they take care of the fine details, collaberating all the appropriate details and forwarding them onto the next level of management.


So what do I get for my handful of cash I pay the ASRF.... you get informed of the details you care about, told whats new, whats hot and basically told about the 'main things'.

If you care about some more of the nitty gritty details, then obviously yo need to get more involved and proceed up the chain of command.

In rodders terms, GET OFF YOUR BUM (I'm trying to be polite), CRAWL OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE, GET INVOLVED, AND HAVE A GO.

The history has set the way we, as rodders do 'business', so if you want to change anything (as opposed to sit on a soap box and whinge), get involved, and deal with the issues on a level which is already existing.

Appoligies for the crap above, but realistically, if you don't get involved then how do you really expect to change anything.

Cheers,

Drewfus

P.S. If Mrs X has even bothered to read all of the above, I'd suggest she take up a new hobby as her ignorance and self righteousness is not at all appealing, or supportive of the spirit of HOT RODDING.
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for they are whom leteth in the LIGHT......
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Mr X
Guest





Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2020 8:28 am    Post subject:

Well thanks for explaining all that! It however makes it hard for me to get involved at any level when I live approx 200klms south of perth. so getting off my bum and doing something is a little more difficult than you city dewellers.

Sorry for my ignorence re this subject I just thought that internet was a way of being all the hot rodding together and anybody else that lives in remote areas, and giving us a fair go
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Pep
1000RPM



Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 1080
Location: Georges Hall, NSW

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2020 9:23 am    Post subject:

[quote="Drewfus"]Sad, disapointing, and disheartening.

I look at the crap being nitpicked above, and I wonder why people bother.


Now there lies the problem...this is the same attitude Lone Wolves get from Club guys...will we get a fair say...not likely. We get howled down and our points dismissed or ignored. That chain of command is rather idealic in a working enviroment but it can't be compared to the ASRF structure so I will dismiss that whole analogy as crap. You want to know how a one vote system would be achieved?...by having your ASRF member number attached to your vote...quite simple aye. How many non financial ASRF members vote at club levels?...quite a few. Instead of attacking us lone wolves just look at us as rodders with a different approach than the current system....now that sounds like what rodders are, or were...Individuals that don't follow the norm....hey we might have some constructive input if we weren't ignored...geez I've got a few that would rock ya socks....but I guess I'm just a dumb fool.
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Drewfus
Rookie


Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 91
Location: Newcastle, Australia

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject:

I do appoligise Pep if you feel I'm attacking individuals, as that is not my intent, my point is that there is already a 'set structure' that has been established, that decisions are made at the various levels. Now rather than bable on with crap like I did above, I ask you a question, what sort of things do you guys who are 'lone wolf's' want to have a say on? what sort of topics do you believe you have the right to vote on? Not trying to being smart, just a simple question, as I feel that the individuals rights only go so far, that's why the ASRF has various committees to deal with the issues at hand, rather than have a have 'refferendums' on every issue that rises at a DC meeting.
Again, I'm not trying to be smart, just trying to set a benchmark to discuss as appropritate.

And to go back to the original intent of the thread, the 'lone wolf club' idea would be good, as the ASRF would forward the appropriate information to the Secretary, who would then issue it to the members of the 'club' .
Again, keeping the 'chain of command',as opposed to jumping the line.

And just so MrX doesn't feel like he's the odd one out, for the record, I live on Dairy farm in the country, a bit over an hour north of Newcastle,
about 3 1/2 hours from the DC meeting.

And no , I don't feel hard doneby.
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Pep
1000RPM



Joined: 14 Jun 2021
Posts: 1080
Location: Georges Hall, NSW

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject:

Drewfus wrote:
I do appoligise Pep if you feel I'm attacking individuals, as that is not my intent, my point is that there is already a 'set structure' that has been established, that decisions are made at the various levels. Now rather than bable on with crap like I did above, I ask you a question, what sort of things do you guys who are 'lone wolf's' want to have a say on? what sort of topics do you believe you have the right to vote on? Not trying to being smart, just a simple question, as I feel that the individuals rights only go so far, that's why the ASRF has various committees to deal with the issues at hand, rather than have a have 'refferendums' on every issue that rises at a DC meeting.
Again, I'm not trying to be smart, just trying to set a benchmark to discuss as appropritate.

And to go back to the original intent of the thread, the 'lone wolf club' idea would be good, as the ASRF would forward the appropriate information to the Secretary, who would then issue it to the members of the 'club' .
Again, keeping the 'chain of command',as opposed to jumping the line.

And just so MrX doesn't feel like he's the odd one out, for the record, I live on Dairy farm in the country, a bit over an hour north of Newcastle,
about 3 1/2 hours from the DC meeting.

And no , I don't feel hard doneby.



OK Drewfus...what would I like a vote on...answer, anything thats put forward to the members at a club level. Now can you answer why my idea of member numbers being attached to individual votes not being viable. I also point out that the term used by you "chain of command" puts the whole perception of the ASRF as a beauocrocy. Add to that the term"governing body" and you might get a glimpse of what us lone wolves feel...I don't want to dismantle the ASRF...I would like to be active...and before I get barraged with join a club and attend DC meetings please re read what I have said in earlier posts...There is room for change and there should be opportunity for questions to be asked...I have questions but I dare say I would either be ignored or attacked if I asked.
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